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Passive aggressive men?

topic posted Sun, February 4, 2007 - 3:33 PM by  Aschleigh
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I have now dating and been in love with 2 very passive-aggressive men. It starts out so good, they are charming, funny, interesting, have good taste and then before I know it the anger and sulleness creeps in. They won't acknowledge even being angry but they obvisoulsy are. They become controlling, irratatable, they can't do emotional intimacy. How do I aviod the type of guy in the future?
Why am I so attracted to men who put on a charming face and then months later reveal an angry, self-destructive self? Any help is appriciated.
posted by:
Aschleigh
Los Angeles
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  • Re: Passive aggressive men?

    Mon, February 5, 2007 - 11:10 AM
    I've referenced this before when passive aggressive men come up. www.angriesout.com/couples8.htm
    Believe me, you don't want to be in a relationship with one. One just about literally drove me crazy. He insisted I was abusive and crazy, and I went to see a shrink. Interestingly, the shrink was like, "I don't see anything wrong with you, except that you're obviously distraught - let's bring in your partner". Once the shrink met the guy, and he subsequently RAN OUT of the office, the shrink was like "God, I want to shake the living shit outta him. He's totally irresponsible. He doesn't love you, he's just using you. Why would you want to have sex with THAT?"
    • Re: Passive aggressive men?

      Mon, February 5, 2007 - 11:15 AM
      A friend of mine is/was dating someone like this and it's really, really troubling to see.

      Especially since it doesn't have to be this way. Those kind of men cause themselves more problems with their behavior - or should I say 'for them and the people they're around'. It's hard to see a friend have to deal with someone like that - she loves him and tries so hard to make it work, but for whatever reason he prefers to create drama, lay on guilt trips and say really mean things.

      hmph!
  • Re: Passive aggressive men?

    Mon, February 5, 2007 - 11:40 AM
    hi Aschleigh.

    I noticed that I tend to date helpless self-centered men. Not to advocate for "testing" as a way of life, but I sometimes try a little subtle leaning on a new guy quite early on to see what happens. Ask for some little thing, be quite specific, but don't make a big deal out of it... and see if they pick it up and are glad to do something for me. It helps me connect with who they are through their actions, and not just the pretty words we all use in the first glowing phase of attraction.

    can you change the way you are, maybe let a little more of the parts of yourself you tend to hide come out? Exercise a little of your unreasonable self (we all have one!) and see what happens.
  • Unsu...
     

    All You Need is Love; Love is all you Need.

    Mon, February 5, 2007 - 1:48 PM
    Asch...,

    I can totally relate to this. I guess I appear charming, funny, interesting, and have good taste once in a while, because I end up landing the most beautiful women and then I realize, "Oh, my god, I am with so and so," and then sullenness creeps in. I am stuck. I am with the hottest babes since God developed standard transmission, and then I feel like I've got to shift gears. I end up paying for everything and I can sense my friends and their friends saying to themselves: "What does she see in him?"

    Even at my wedding reception, my friends were placing bets to see how long it would last. I think the longest was 2 weeks. As it turned out, she and I were together for 5 painful years. I was totally in love with her. Anyway, after we divorced and I hadn't heard from her for many years, she wrote to apologize. I told her no problem. I was just as sorry. I knew we were not compatible given our values and sure enough in a few communications she was reminding me why.

    So, anyway, I think we can do emotional intimacy. We have to feel like we can be open with our feelings and that it won't undermine our relationship. If we are harboring fears, then yes the boat is already in sinking mode.

    I guess Asch... the only way to avoid these kinds of men is to communicate your impressions as the red flags appear. They at least owe you honesty. The self-destruction is tied to their perceptions of self in a complex world. Are they secure? For me, it's always been about doing work I love to do and never having the opportunity or if having the opportunity it wasn't practical.

    I think these kinds of men are very talented and they have potential to be very loving, but they haven't had the opportunity to love themselves. They've been the emotional parents of their families since probably a very young age and women become emotional burdens since the mothers of these children never grew up themselves and have the belief that men are there to take care of them, which is fine, except that these men are by nature inappropriately matched to reality. They have dead-end jobs, but their responsibilities keep them risk-averse.

    I guess the only way to succeed with these men is to realize they are just human, consider how much they really have going for them since they usually have homes and have brilliant lives outside of their jobs. Maybe you can suggest asking them what it is they really like to do. It will probably be something quiet, like writing novels or painting. On vacations, they probaby work. Eventually, these guys break through and I assure you, they are not regular people. There's a lot of love inside of them, but you may represent stress because they think you are totally hot, but they just don't know what to do about it.

    It's the old combination of needs and wants coupled with a feeling of inadequacy in the face of having arrived on one front to be reminded of failure on another. I think it's all about love.
  • Re: Passive aggressive men?

    Mon, February 5, 2007 - 2:20 PM
    I probably displayed some p/a behaviors in my past marriage, although not for the reasons shown here. I definitely own responsibility for not being more forthright, but I generally found that raising issues didn't work very well. Raising issues was viewed as an "attack" (her word, not mine); the way I usually put it is that "a pinprick attack was met with a nuclear response." I really really had to feel like it was going to be worth the defensive hell that would rain down before I would raise an issue. I didn't have the fortitude at the time to take that issue head-on (and didn't understand it when we were dating, before it was "too late"). So subconsciously I know I ended up being sullen and/or p/a at times when there was an issue that I just didn't have the energy to raise (since it always took a lot of energy, no matter how small the issue). Oh, and anger and resentment can result from buried issues, although if you're in the early dating stage, seems too early, like any buried stuff would be from past relationships, and if you're getting the remnants of that, clearly not good.

    So while not trying to place the blame on anyone else, since I own at least 50% of it, and not trying to defend p/a behavior at all; just want to be clear that sometimes it can come out of mutual interaction. If you start finding that ALL men act this way, then that should seem a bit odd, since not all men are that way with all people. Is there another dynamic involved?

    Just some thoughts...
  • Re: Passive aggressive men?

    Mon, February 5, 2007 - 8:40 PM
    I understand what you mean by passive/aggressive but I thought I'd mention that you're not describing it like it is defined in psychology. In regards to your dating choices, I guess you could look for men that aren't super charming at first. I am attracted to a certain type of woman that really turns me on in the initial stages of the relationship. I've been thinking about chasing women of a different sort where the attraction builds gradually.
  • Re: Passive aggressive men?

    Tue, February 6, 2007 - 8:56 AM
    Couple of suggestions, but be careful, you might not like them.

    To flush out guys like this earlier, just find a reason to make them angry early on and see how they respond. If they respond directly, apologize and move on. If not, then you've found a way to filter.

    As to why you're finding them - chances are you're finding them because you're doing either the same thing, or a very complementary/enabling thing, (which are often the same thing). In order to stop finding them, you may need to examine your own propensity for passive aggression and/or learn to express your own anger more directly.
    • Re: Passive aggressive men?

      Tue, February 6, 2007 - 11:51 AM
      Not to challenge anyone...but if I may address the prior suggestion of...

      <<If they respond directly, apologize and move on.>>

      ...having been married to the epitome/embodiment of a passive/aggressive personality for 12 yrs. (I literally "learned" the term from marriage counseling)...may I suggest that If they respond "directly"...then they're NOT passive/aggressive. That is what's so frustrating about them...they DON"T respond directly..

      I do totally agree with the "...just find a reason to make them angry early on and see..." test. However, I wouldn't look for a true "angry" response...more of a pout or withdrawal or a mood change and then there seems to be verbal sniping for no apparent reason...whatever their "weapon of choice" is...

      but yes, definitely "test" them, if you're unsure or don't have the "radar" in place yet. Since I "graduated" from the Advanced Class (divorced my ex-husband) I have developed some Intergalactic Infra-Red Global Positioning System type of "sense" regarding these guys...I don't need to test them anymore. I can watch how they interact with a waitress/er, store clerk, bar tender, listen to accounts about friends/family/work...etc. and my "radar" goes off like the 4th of July.

      But definitley test it...you will save yourself a LOT of time and emotional investment if you can learn to peg them early on.
      • Unsu...
         

        Star-spangled Banner

        Tue, February 6, 2007 - 11:13 PM
        Can you explain how they respond to "Waitress/er, store clerk, bar tender, listen to accounts about friends/family/work...etc?" because I may be disqualified from the category if I am supposed to be mean to waitresses and the other professionals. I am usually very recessive and kind. Friends think I am crazy in that I will dance with their babies or pretend I am totally zany, run through a restaurant full-speed. My family say I am handsome and talented, but of course they don't really know me. People at work think I am crazy. One might explain the story about how I was standing over a table explaining a special as: "It has really big eyes and teeth that are long and sharp and we have to chase it around the kitchen for hours and then we beat it with baseball bat and then tie it to a chair." I usually say this in an animated voice and the customers are kind of nervous. They don't know if I am serious or kidding. The children's eyes expand in their sockets and and then I'll say, "It looks like you'll need sometime to decide; I'll be back in a few moments."

        Anyway, tell me what the radar is telling you. My birthday is around July 4th.
        • Re: Star-spangled Banner

          Wed, February 7, 2007 - 5:49 AM
          Honestly, Mario?...I didn't see where anything you referenced in your previous posts even suggested you "should've" been included in this category to begin with. NOT being passive/aggressive has nothing to do with being "mean" to service industry employees or people in general. It's about being direct about your feelings/intentions and following through when agreeing to, or claiming you will, do something you really don't want to do, or don't get the results you wanted and then instead of either just sucking it up like an adult, you sulk or undermine or in some other way sabotage the outcome either through NON-participation (when your input is needed) or subversive actions that hinder/impede/thwart the desired outcome (or simply to spite the person who they perceive as the one "getting their way") . Any and all of the behaviors listed as examples in Wicked One's link are exactly what I'm referencing. I just watch how a person reacts in situations that are somewhat routine...like not getting the table we prefer/having to wait for the bartender's attention if they're busy/how a relative (or anyone) needs something that required some of this person's time - possible having to alter their schedule or other plans, etc. If these are the type of things that will impact the rest of your date because this person is now reacting more to not getting their own way (in an subtle, quiet refusal yet irritated/"under their breath" manner) rather than focusing on and/or trying to enjoy themselves with you/the rest of the evening, that's passive/aggressive behavior.
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: Star-spangled Banner

            Wed, February 7, 2007 - 11:25 AM
            Yes Veiled Woman,

            I don't think I am passive-aggressive with women (I was raised by them), but the maudlin description really fits me. When I have a crush on someone, I get real quiet. I am usually masochistic rather than sadistic if it turns out she's bored or interested in someone else and I'll usually leave the restaurant or bar. I am just testing your radar. You had been a party to a group of people who called me an asshole in another tribe and it just really hurt and I was wondering if you had any memory of that or that it related to this category of negative men. At the time, I was being completely open and honest about "overcoming shyness" and someone called me an asshole, which is weird since the tribe is for "People who strive for complete honesty in their dealings with other humans. A tribe for people who value compassionate truth over social conventions Ready to delve into deeper relationships complete with vulnerability & trust? I want this to be a safe & supportive place for people committed to this to discuss (and vent if necessary) some of the trials & tribulations of attempting this."

            But, I want to thank you for being honest with me and I am very glad your radar didn't pick me up. Namaste.
            • Re: Star-spangled Banner

              Wed, February 7, 2007 - 12:19 PM
              Oh, Mario...You're definition of the "aforementioned tribe" made me laugh till I teared up! I know that it is LITERALLY the description of said tribe...which IS what makes it so funny!!

              And yes, I EVER so vaguely might remember the incident you are referencing...NO, I have never thought of you (from your posts) as a passive aggressive individual ...tho' I might add, that "being party" to the episode you mentioned was more than likely a spin off of some smartass remark that was made...or was specific to just a finite portion of it.

              Honestly, the only thing I remember about that (IF it's what I'm recalling at all) is feeling almost "threatened" by how relentless you were about continuing the exchange. I know that I never understood what started it, I was VERY new to Tribe at the time, and for the most part ignored the bulk of it....however...it went on so long (not just from your end either, I do remember at some point NOT agreeing with some of what the others said and thinking "why doesn't he just let it go?" in hopes that not only it would stop, but because I felt sorry for you) I will tell you this tho', for a while I was leary of your posts...based on that exchange...only because it was one of my first experiences here and I was still learning the landscape and I thought you might be someone to avoid (from a self-protective perspective). Later, as I watched and learned, I really didn't consider it anymore.

              I am guessing, but I'd bet (since YOU were the victim of the assault) that you remember vividly who the other members of "the party" involved were. Dare I venture to ask, are any of those people "my friends" here? I am guessing more than likely not, or very few.. I am very sorry if that incident, and whatever comment I made, has resonated with you all this time and tainted your prespective of me. I hope that time has shown you that I am more than whatever I seemed to be, based on whatever comment was made at that time (which I am sure was just a sliver, specific to the context of the moment...and NOT an omen of all things to come/all I have to offer as an co-dweller of the planet and certainly I hope you don't think that I would hold that exchange as a perpetually "defining" moment about your personality was well...I don't function that way.)

              Did I pass your test? You passed mine a long time ago.
        • Re: Star-spangled Banner

          Wed, February 7, 2007 - 9:54 AM
          Agreeing with AVW, but laughing my ass off at the daily special... how long did that job last?
          • Unsu...
             

            "See that room over there..."

            Wed, February 7, 2007 - 11:48 AM
            Thank you BnB. It's true about the story, my friend Jon loves to tell it since he was walking by at the time and he noted the kid's faces. No, I still have the job and I continue to practice my acting skills. Apparently, I am very convincing. By the time every guest finishes their meal, they've usually had a few good laughs. Once in a while, like this woman from the CDC without so much as a modicum of humor in her complained to the manager and I got written up. Since then however, I've been careful about blowback. If anyone so much as gets up from the table and heads to the manager at the podium, I warn them about the baseball bat in the bussers station. (Just kidding.)
            • Re: "See that room over there..."

              Wed, February 7, 2007 - 4:09 PM
              >They at least owe you honesty.<

              Well, that's just the problem with Passive Aggressive people. The are intentionally dishonest. They will say they will do things "just to be nice", but they have no intention of doing them, or they will screw everything up so badly, you wish you had never agreed to their "help". I tried tackling problems head-on in direct conversation, and he would either just stare at me blankly and say nothing, or just agree with me, but never do what he agreed to do. It was a formula for a disastrous relationship. Later, I found out that this was not just negligence, he was actually intentionally not doing things "just to see what I would do".

              Like when I was sick but went to work anyway, he said I could call him anytime if I needed him to pick me up. When I actually tried calling him, he had turned his cellphone off. He actually planned this ahead of time (he posted it elsewhere in Tribe). When he agreed to accompany me to the hospital for surgery, he emailed me the morning of the appointment to say "I can't make it" - no explanation, no apology, and I had to pay $100 for the cancelled surgery, because I had no one to take me on such short notice.

              Personally, I think passive aggressive people are just pure evil. I would rather deal with hate head-on than deal with someone that says he loves me and then does everything he can to hurt me. At least with honest hate, then I would know to stay away.
              • Unsu...
                 

                At the Controls

                Wed, February 7, 2007 - 5:27 PM
                Wicked One. That's horrible. I am just an idiot, but I would never say I would do something and then not do it unless I honestly forgot. And to announce it like premediated murder or like some practical joke is worthless. I know a guy at work who actually says he does stuff to "mess with people," I think he's kidding, but sure enough I am actually hearing him say that and then it dons on me. I seem to remember him wrapping something in celophane and then giving it to someone. You'd think life was hard enough and then you've got these people making plans to make your life completely miserable. They lie in wait at the controls ready to push your buttons and then Zappo, except that you can't believe they would stoop so low on the psychological ladder of insight, which means they are truly miserable themselves or unaccomplished, afraid and they take it out on people who actually face the music of their lives and eventually do something about it. These people make it their life's work to meddle.
        • Re: Star-spangled Banner

          Wed, February 7, 2007 - 4:06 PM
          "My birthday is around July 4th. "

          Curious. My birthday is also "around" July 4th. July 5th, actually.
          • Unsu...
             

            To Have Cancer Your Whole Life is to be Blessed

            Wed, February 7, 2007 - 5:28 PM
            You damn Cancer you! That means you are a nice person.
            • Re: To Have Cancer Your Whole Life is to be Blessed

              Thu, February 8, 2007 - 7:12 AM
              <<...that's just the problem with Passive Aggressive people. The are intentionally dishonest. ...>>

              Yes, personally, I think the foundational component to any and all passive/aggressive tendencies is cowardess.

              It drives me insane....lol...you have no idea to what degree... (but that's because I lived with it for so long ...NOT knowing I was being manipulated all the while....grrrrrr)
            • Re: To Have Cancer Your Whole Life is to be Blessed

              Fri, February 9, 2007 - 7:04 PM
              Sorry to say but my ex was a Cancer and very p/a. whenever wed argue hed sulk but say it was ok ..no problem....but if we had something planned the same day he would all of a sudden not be able to follow thru with those plans. and Id become upset and not understand what just happened... my perception was.... he did this to get back at me for not getting his way ........at the time I didnt realize he was doing that. but Ive come across plenty of people who do this and I can see it a mile away now. Mario....I dont know you too well but if you can argue a point directly without pretending and saying everything is ok while your body language suggest other wise then secretly planning to attack ....then your not p/a. You dont seem that way to me .
              • Unsu...
                 

                We aren't really needed.

                Sat, February 10, 2007 - 2:11 AM
                Thanks Jess. I've not had that experience with the Cancers I know, but I am sure this is not an astrological issue. I was merely joking about Teamnoir's and my birthdays. I am sorry that when you argued with your ex- he would submit but later take it out on you by withdrawing from something you had been depending on. I honestly cannot say how I am since it has been so long since I was in a relationship. I think there have been times when I was so exhausted emotionally that I bowed out of an argument because an ex had raised her voice and she said that relationships are filled with yelling and screaming. I was taken aback by that (I have seldom raised my voice) and I think when she had asked me to go with her and her boys to the park, I was experiencing a major second thought. There were a lot of those moments in that relationship and it felt like we had run into belief, attitude, and value brick walls that there was no going around. It was like another who said she didn't need me, and so I promptly left. She was talking about having the capacity to go on about her life without me. It had gotten to the point in our relationship that she did need somebody to do certain tasks for her and sure enough she had left a note in my backpack before her statement that I found later. She had thanked me for all I had done for her. As was the case, we had broken up on that day and once a woman cries and you've hurt her. It's over. She came and got her key and that was that. It was really a shame since I must have appeared like your ex in that I got real quiet, packed up my stuff and left. The plans of our relationship pretty much evaporated if she didn't need me. I think I was also trying to establish a balance of power. I really miss her. Recently, I pushed a book, by an author of another book she had told me to read, through her mailbox and I had written praises her for knowing the truth about almost everything. She did not need me.

                There come times in relationships, where you question the loss of self to such an extent that you need to step away and reassess whether or not this person is the one for you. I think those are the times, when you just have to let the other person out of the loop for a while and not issue ultimatums. I was fine that she had told me that. It was unemotional for me. I just had to quietly leave to let her think about it. She called my bluff and decided to end it. Looking back, her statement gave me an out. The problem is I loved and respected her. She is the smartest person I have ever met. She was correct; she didn't need me.
              • Re: To Have Cancer Your Whole Life is to be Blessed

                Sat, February 10, 2007 - 11:00 AM
                I'm a cancer, but to be fair, I have been passive aggressive.

                I don't think of it as being cancer so much as it is being raised by women. I was taught that negative emotions were "caused" by other people. As in, "You've upset your mother". And the implication was that doing so was considered bad. Hence, in that world, trying to find ways to actually live one's life without creating those sorts of obvious waves leads to something very much like passive aggression.

                However, personally, it was pointed out to me be someone I dated for a few years and we worked on it. I believe that direct communications is nearly always more effective, (if sometimes less romantic). These days I'm generally pretty direct.
            • Re: To Have Cancer Your Whole Life is to be Blessed

              Sat, February 10, 2007 - 10:57 AM
              "You damn Cancer you! That means you are a nice person."

              Clearly, you don't know me or many cancers.

              *grin*
              • Re: To Have Cancer Your Whole Life is to be Blessed

                Sat, February 10, 2007 - 12:42 PM
                I was only joking about the Cancer statement but not the relationship and the P/A traits that my ex showed. Isnt a P/A person looking to control and manipulate the situation? I believe when I was younger I had some of these traits bcause I didnt know how to get what I wanted openly (13 yrs old) I was very intraverted and so I used those tactics. I love open communication and I would never want to revert to that type of behavior. It gets you no where but a broken heart and spirit. I believe that it also leads to to serial dating or what have you and you tend to blame the other person for the negative results and outcome, when its really your own behavior that causes it. Now if the other person is the P/A one ....I think its best to leave the relationship. I waited a long time patiently for my ex to change and it was a horrible experience . Its better for both parties in the end to know when to walk away amicably if possible. You never know ......you can meet again at sometime and the second time is a charm(the say).
                • Unsu...
                   

                  Tough Love Out in the Open

                  Sat, February 10, 2007 - 1:12 PM
                  Oh, Jess. You are so grown up. I wish I had half the maturity you do. Yes OPEN Communication. At least the other person knows where you are going mentally and down what path, so they can remind you of the monsters or hell, let you go down that path alone so you can learn a lesson.
                • Re: To Have Cancer Your Whole Life is to be Blessed

                  Sat, February 10, 2007 - 2:13 PM
                  "Isnt a P/A person looking to control and manipulate the situation?"

                  I think a more fair statement would be that a p/a person is looking to influence a situation without really knowing how. What results is a series of unconscious acts which might appear to be attempts to control or manipulate. I don't think they generally do so intentionally.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: To Have Cancer Your Whole Life is to be Blessed

                    Sat, February 10, 2007 - 2:36 PM
                    "I don't think they generally do so intentionally."

                    That probably varies by person. And they may be doing what they do intentionally without realizing it's p/a. People do what has historically worked for them; behavior that's rewarded will be repeated. If asking/demanding what they want doesn't always work (occasionally they don't get it, or have to compromise), but p/a does work, then p/a it will be. So it can be used as a tool to get what they want all the time.

                    On the other hand, I'm amazed at the number of women I know (including very good friends whom I love a lot) that never consider that their choice on some matter won't prevail. When making a choice between alternatives, you're picking from what's at the top of her list, not between what's on your and her lists. If your faves aren't at the top of her list, then your faves simply aren't in consideration. It's a level of egotism that I find striking, and I wouldn't want to be in a serious life relationship with them because either it's going to come down to a "come to Jesus" discussion about the issue or passive/aggressive as the only other defense. Obviously the former is preferable since it involves clear communication if done right, but taking someone down from their self-installed pedestal can't be fun, and may not work. (Actually, it's not self-installed really... either someone put her up there or she tested going up and no one ever challenged her). Some people resort to p/a as the less-work alternative.

                    By the way, I assume there are guys like this too; I just don't happen to know them (nor do I evaluate their impact on a potential relationship). Not hatin' on the gender... :) (by any stretch)
                    • P/A

                      Sat, February 10, 2007 - 6:29 PM
                      guys with their priority list and everyone elses does not count....... know some....yes Ive even dated some...yuck! now I know better. Im a very sympathetic ,easy going person who likes to keep the peace, so I was easily drawn into that by justifing the other persons need as important enough to put myself on the back burner. Oh how things change...I still love to make peace but I love my own peace of mind better.... hey lets face ,we both have to be happy or its a no go for me. Ive learned to open my mouth( in a civilized way) and the worst thing that can happen is that you find out sooner than later that your with the wrong person.....hence you saved yourself plenty of heartaches. You may have just gained a friend if your lucky.
                      • Re: P/A

                        Mon, February 12, 2007 - 12:15 PM
                        From what I've read my bahavior can bring out the passive aggressive tendencies in the men I am with. I can be very up front, sometimes controlling, I am strong willed. I get the feeling that the last bf couldn't do any confrontation so he hid his frustration and anger from me but it came out in all different ways.
                        I can do a bit of testing. I am communicate as directly as possible. But at this point , it's been so hard to deal with passive aggressive men that I will now try to stay away from them. I realized I really want to be with a man I can admire. I can't admire someone who isn't taking care of himself emotionally, who is fearful and angry but won't admit it, even to himself. Someone who I can trust becuase he is honest with himself first and then me. It's a long journey of self-discovery. I need someone who is committed to seeing himself clearly. Warts and all.
                        I deserve it.
  • Re: Passive aggressive men?

    Sun, June 3, 2007 - 2:56 AM
    Who knows, they are charming to get you ,then their standard shit kicks in and they are nto longer what you want or need. f them. you are at least getting them now and again, how can we wommen be so hurt so oftern?!
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Passive aggressive men?

      Sun, June 3, 2007 - 4:15 PM
      Joy,

      I believe both genders are hurtful. I believe both are hurtful for the same reason. They go where they don't want to be and isn't there always a hint of the future in present actions? But, then may not be a hint. Life is complicated. We have a responsibility to protect ourselves to the best of our abilities and then what can we do? Men lie because of needs. Women lie because of needs. An evolved person maintains an open dialog or at least refrains from engaging in an external physical one as an honor to him/herself.

      We have to try to love. We have to go as far as we can and then if it seems impossible, give up. There should be nothing more than disappointment at the end of a relationship. If there is more, dependency is evident.

      You know men for whom no shit would kick in. Those are the ones you need to seek out. Rid yourself of the ego and you will find love. (And I say this as if I were speaking to myself. There really is no command on my part.) I met someone recently who evokes serenity. It is not perfect but it goes on because it is not over. It is not over because she tries too. Loving in an art. It takes action.

      Many, many men will treat you well. Stop looking for men who are unable.
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Passive aggressive men?

    Mon, June 4, 2007 - 5:02 AM
    this may come across as hurtful, but to change who you meet, im one who thinks a person has to change who they are. in other words, if you usually meet guys at supermarkets, try meeting them in a different place. if you usually date bodybuilders, try computer nerds. one cant always know who a person is or what they will be like in 6 months, but one can keep themselves from getting attached before they find out who they are dealing with.

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